Almost a year ago, I’d written an article about a friend of mine going over seas to fight against ISIL. He had joined up with the Lions of Rojava and pretty much volunteered a willingness to risk his life to fight alongside the YPG (translates from Kurdish to People’s Defense Units), and to stand up for the people in Syria being terrorized by ISIL’s insurgencies. He took on a new identity while over there, and adjusted his perceptions of how the world works on the Middle Eastern battlefields. He was gone for about six months, and was kind enough to take time to have a chat about his experiences over there to share with all of you.
First, I should mention a few things about Avery and I. He and I have been online friends since 2003, and only met once back in 2004 at a Waffle House in Mason, Ohio. We were battle buddies on Diablo II online, and we always had great conversation in between; sometimes heated or disagreeing, but good discussion nonetheless. I would describe Avery as a very animated man. Eager to enjoy good company and experiences, certainly taking life by the horns and making the most of it whenever he has the opportunity.
But he is also a walking paradox to me, and maybe that is why I enjoy his presence in my life so much. He’s pretty much an atheist like myself, or I should say not overly spiritual in his personal views. He’s big on gun rights, the Constitution, small government, and freedom to love who you want. He loves his country and is proud of his previous service with the Marine Corp. It’s an interesting mix to say the least, and we’ve locked horns on some hot button issues like gun rights, immigration, President Obama, and gun reform. But after nearly 13 years of his sharing experiences, opinions, and strategic crafting skills online, I’ve gotta say he’s a nice oddball to know in my bunch.
When he decided to leave for Syria, I was not happy. I was pretty upset and confused at his logic. He really came across like it was just a game, and that it would be fun to hunt down some bad guys. This was a side of him I’d never experienced before in a serious tone, and once he was gone, I poured through the weekly news checking to see if there were any American losses in the YPG ranks. At one point, it was nearly two or three weeks since any of his online friends had heard from him, and fearing the worst I did the unthinkable. I panned through photos of decapitated heads that were mounted on fence spikes near the Syrian border hoping his wasn’t there.
I didn’t doubt his intentions of wanting to do some good and help those in need of protection over there, but Avery is pushing 50, and he wasn’t exactly in shape after plowing snow with the Ohio DOT for the last ten years. It seemed to me he was physically unprepared, and my other friends who have served in Syria before cautioned me about the conditions over there. On top of all that, how would he blend in with their culture when he showed such little tolerance for extreme religious societies? All of these things made me worry, but he did make it back in one piece this Fall, and did an interview or two for the media outlets.
Now Avery is heading back over to fight with the YPG ranks again, and is currently on his way there this month. Prior to leaving, Avery was gracious enough to give me about two hours of his time while we cleared the air about his experiences over there, his expectations for his next tour, and what he sees as the outcome of his actions, and that of world governments in the Syrian war.
Bluegrass Skeptic: We’ve been online Diablo battle buddies since what? Like 2004? And I’m pretty sure we started chatting on Yahoo in 2003. That’s like 12 years! Where did the time go? It kills me. Seriously
Avery: Work, Diablo, paintball, pof, LIFE
Bluegrass Skeptic:Things I know about you would include working for Ohio DOT near Cleveland. You would come down to Kentucky at least once a year for the races. Have fun with friends all over the country at times. Are pretty damn secular, but with conservative tendencies when it comes to guns and economics. You’re pushing 50, and your mom died almost two years ago now right?
Bluegrass Skeptic: So you are pushing 48. And I’m sorry, I thought it had been a bit longer since your deciding to leave for aiding the Kurds that your mom had passed. I can’t imagine. You handle the anniversary okay?
Avery: With a glass of Jameson.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Before leaving, you sent a package of cool stuff to me. And I tell you, when I received the comics and other goodies, it really felt like a bequeathing of goods before someone is going to die. Was that in your mind when you sent the stuff out? Or did you just need to unload your shit because you weren’t going to need a place for awhile?
Avery: It was to not throw such items away, but giving them to someone who would enjoy them.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Just fyi, I’m not going to over why you went over. I’m going to trust your answer of wanting to make a difference in an active manner, like you’ve already explained in other interviews. I’ll reference your other interviews for folks wanting more details.
Now, you mention how your service years in the marines never exposed you to combat situations. Did your expectations from your past training match up with your real life experience with the YPG?
Avery: My past training was for conventional warfare. The type of warfare that the YPG does , is not conventional, but not guerilla either. I felt very assured that my training was more than adequate
Bluegrass Skeptic: I’m not questioning that. I just wondered how it fit the situation.
Avery:
Avery Harrington 48 a former Marine worked as a highway technician for the Ohio Department of Transportation until earlier this year. But when he connected with a Facebook page recruiting foreign volunteers to join the fight against extremists in Syria Avery made some changes. In March carrying $10000 body armor with steel plates two canned hams turkey bacon 25 pairs of clean socks and 10 packets of baby wipes he flew to Iraq. When he finally made it to Syria he went through a kind of boot camp alongside two other Americans a New Zealander an Iranian and two Brits. Many realized far too late that this wasnt a normal deployment. We perpetually give Avery said. And we are perpetually getting screwed. Moises Saman of @magnumphotos took this photo for #NYTMag. by nytimes:
As Marines always do… they adapt
Bluegrass Skeptic: Is there anything that you would like to have been better prepared for?
Avery: To have known the language and been in better shape
Bluegrass Skeptic: Is there anything you hadn’t expected you needed to be better prepared for?
Avery: Well, I did not know the mentality and demeanor of the Kurds.
Bluegrass Skeptic: What did you expect versus what you experienced?
Avery: Well I expected being shot at to be scarier than it was. As for the Kurds, I knew little about them ,except that they were friendly people.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Now, publicly, you say you weren’t looking to be a crusader or hero, that you weren’t really looking for combat. Prior to your dispatching to work for the YPG, there was a bit of that bravado and smack talking going on. And I can completely understand that since it’s important to keep up that courage before stepping off the proverbial cliff. Would you say you’ve dialed back a bit on your enthusiasm after seeing firsthand what the situation and rules for engagement are like over in Kurdistan?
Avery: Well I never went looking to be a crusader (against my beliefs), or a hero. I went to take action. Yes, I have dialed it back on the bravado, because I know what is awaiting me and there is less need to build up anything. Kind of like going back to a job you already know, compared to starting a new one.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Speaking of going back again, you’ve said that you think the YPG will be better prepared f
or international volunteers this next time. Is it a matter of coordination of objectives and facilitating better communication of roles?
Avery: Communication is better; they have listened to volunteers and have heard the complaints from them and taken actions. They are not bending over to make it better for the volunteers, but for everyone.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Do you think this will extend your tour if it they’ve accomplished this?
Avery: Yes, it will take major events to change or shorten my tour this time.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Any thoughts on foreign support being present within the YPG and their communities, and the impression you hope to leave in the minds of those you are there to help?
Avery: Thoughts of remembering it is their homeland, not mine. Their ways, not mine. Am impression that we care.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Did you get much interaction within the communities outside of your detachment of men?
Avery: Yes, I spent as much time with the women of our unit. They were more willing to teach the language than the men who just wanted to learn English.
Bluegrass Skeptic: So it was mostly within the unit? And do you think foreign fighters like yourself have left that positive impression of caring, of being their in genuine support? Or is there any trepidation coloring the situation a little due to our documented histories of difficulties in places like Afghanistan and Iraq?
Avery: Well since the foreign volunteers are there as individuals and not as countries pushing foreign policy….. we have left good impressions, save the fact that there is always a bad apple. We do not belong to our government while we are there. So, we are just people who care.
Bluegrass Skeptic: What do you hope the end game is for Kurdistan’s situation? And what do you think the reality will really be?
Avery: At least some type of self government within Syria, similar to what is present in Iraq. Really, I think they will end up having to fight for anything at all.
Bluegrass Skeptic: On the topic of fighting for everything, you did end up in the middle of some fire fights I gathered from other interviews. And I’m sure you remember a certain picture that riled me up a bit.
Avery: The skull or dead body?
Bluegrass Skeptic: As I recall, the caption read something along the lines of “a job well done”.
Avery: Yup, can’t take all the credit. It was a group effort.
And I don’t disagree. Bad things definitely happen to bad people.
Avery: Only if focused upon by those that would want to move the support away from the Kurds and to those helping them (ISIS)
Bluegrass Skeptic: Could you see me viewing such propaganda like photos as not much better than ISIS members showing off decapitated heads on fence spikes? Honestly, I felt such a display cheapened your reason for being over there. At least, for me personally not overall.
Avery: I see your point.
Bluegrass Skeptic: I had little doubt you were being on the level and handling shit that needed to be dealt with. It made me wonder though what kind of stress you were going through. I never imagined seeing a display from you like that.
Avery: Well, how would you have viewed if that picture had been taken by a reporter instead?
Bluegrass Skeptic: With a cigarette butt and a pop can? I would assume the reporter found it that way and thought the YPG was acting no better than ISIS when it came to disrespect and treating this serious conflict as a political ploy.
Avery: Hard to have respect for people who commit such acts against the defenseless.
Bluegrass Skeptic: I agree, and it’s hard to always be the bigger person. Especially under stress, communication difficulties, and everything else. Speaking on ISIS, fighting, and death. Did you meet any live/captured ISIS fighters? I understand if you can’t answer due to security reasons.
Avery: I saw 3 being transported through our lines. Nothing more.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Do you know what their fates might have been?
Avery: Questioning and then prison. YPG doesnt execute prisoners.
Bluegrass Skeptic: So, would you say YPG is trying to understand ISIS mindsets? Maybe come up with a way to diffuse some of the propaganda the ISIS recruiters are using to draw in the youth? It would seem bullets won’t be enough to quell this completely.
Avery: No, YPG is not working on that level directly…. those who support YPG on-line may be trying that.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Would you say they are trying to just maintain the integrity of their territory from ISIS incursions?
Avery: NO, they are protecting those who live in the area that Isis has invaded. They (YPG) are protecting alll races and religions.
Bluegrass Skeptic: So, they send troops into nearby areas of Syria to help.
Avery: Not into……they are already in Syria… They attack ISIS to protect the people. Kurds area is in their minds… no legal borders since Assad pulled out to protect his capital.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Gotcha.That is something that isn’t explained too clearly in the news.
Avery: Rojava is the Kurdish area of Northeast Syria, but there are no borders.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Okay, onto the ham.
Avery: Yes, please.
Bluegrass Skeptic:
Why’d you lose all that ham, man? What happened? (Avery had packed some along with his baggage and had to leave it behind in Iraq when coming to Syria)
Avery: I had no room in my pack, and had to adjust load when going from PKK camp into Rojava.
Bluegrass Skeptic: For those reading, what is PKK?
Avery: I had way too much gear. PKK are the Kurds who are fighting for freedoms from Turkey. They signed a cease fire with Turkey so they could help in Rojava.
Bluegrass Skeptic:And that is a very tense situation for them as well.
Avery: Turkey has been attacking PKK more than ISIS. Yes, quite tense.
Bluegrass Skeptic: I believe that. Turkey doesn’t like it when everyone doesn’t follow their rules, and the Turkish government is known to not be overly reasonable. Just look at the slaughtering of Christians.
Would you join the PKK if they have to fight Turkey (for independence)?
Avery: No, thats not my fight.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Due to legalities, I’ll not ask a follow up to that answer. Now, was human smuggling what you expected it to be?
Avery: Not as cramped (as he thought), but just as exciting.
Bluegrass Skeptic: What were the risks and consequences of that kind of operation?
Avery: Jail time. Maybe deported.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Can you say other than the Tigris, what borders you had to get through? Did it cost you anything, or did the YPG have it arranged?
Avery: It was arranged, and I traveled with the PKK into Syria from Iraq.
Bluegrass Skeptic: And if you were to take this up as more than just a “seasonal job”, is it worth the commute?
I hear the pay is lousy and the food will make you lose fifty pounds in like three months.
Avery: Yes, they will pay your way home after six months of serving, but the food was good!!! It’s our crap that puts weight on.
Bluegrass Skeptic: I believe that!
Avery: If a job makes you feel good…then pay isn’t important.
Bluegrass Skeptic: So what do you get out of this? Personally? Philosophically?
Avery: Personally? Knowing that I didnt just watch as it happened…….. Philosophically? I don’t know how to answer that.
Bluegrass Skeptic: Do you have a different personal take on the world and life after being there? Philosophically..
Any chance you would lend your hand in places like Haiti or Somalia?
Avery: Hmmmmm. I would have to be more informed on those places, or any place, for me to consider. Philosophically, I know that people are willing to give everything they have to protect them and theirsm and they dont have to be Americans to do so.
Bluegrass Skeptic: The best and worst you witnessed over there?
Avery: Best is people coming back to their homes. The worst? Empty houses showing that people grabbed what they could and ran for their lives.
Bluegrass Skeptic: And, last question. Do you keep a scroll of town portal on hand (US government intervention) if shit gets seriously bad, or are you SOL? (Yes, dear readers, this is a Diablo II reference.)
Avery: Left breast pocket with a Hot-Key to it.
Bluegrass Skeptic: That’s pretty serious.
Avery: Yes, ma’am.
You can watch Avery’s interview with the Huffington Post here. You can read a more in depth look at the entire detachment of foreign fighters working for the YPG and YPJ here.
